Comments on: Group wants South Waterfront to ditch cars /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/ Building and Construction News in Portland, Oregon and the Pacific Northwest Tue, 15 Jun 2010 05:39:32 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.6 By: Brandon /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-27643 Tue, 15 Jun 2010 05:39:32 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-27643 Craig, it cost $125M of taxpayer money to turn the “industrial wasteland into a new taxed neighborhood”. The investment will certainly generate a tax revenue stream but the initial government investment will not be justified unless tax revenue growth increases. Waiting 20 years doesn’t make the math work for the city.

What I don’t understand is why the SWF can’t use currently unbuilt properties as surface parking lots. The one gravel lot in the SWF sees 65 vehicles at peak on a weekday; they must gross $10k+/mo. The lots could allow customers to more easily the commercial spaces, which are approximately 80% vacant. Otherwise, business will continue to be hesitant to move in, which feeds the slow growth cycle. The example of the south waterfront community getting rebuffed by every grocery store chain in the northwest had a lot to do with parking and access. A 10-year plan to gradually eliminate surface off-street parking and replace it with new projects (ie condos) might do a lot to stimulate growth.

]]>
By: Craig /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-26133 Thu, 03 Jun 2010 17:20:37 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-26133 Plus the value of the area will be much higher after build out, which in turn will provide more money for schools, and basic services. It’s smart long term thinking…a bit of postponed gratification. I don’t see why anyone would be upset with turning a non-producing tax industrial wasteland into a new taxed neighborhood. You just have to wait 20 years, but in City time that isn’t that long. I don’t see this as any different then choosing to go to college over working right out school. Long term the investment pays off, but you do pay a short term price.

]]>
By: Jayson L /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-26015 Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:37:02 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-26015 People who choose to live in South Waterfront will more easily abandon cars than others, in say, the West Hills, because there are better connections via streetcar and soon-to-be light rail, and bike facilities. The connections may not be as good as other parts of central Portland, but they’re better than before and make living without a car doable. I live without a car in Portland east of 39th and I suspect one could just as easily do it in South Waterfront.

With regard to TIF funding, the school district and other vital services are still getting the same amount of funding they got before the South Waterfront district was started. They aren’t getting the increase in taxes because that money is being used to fund the infrastructure there instead. I’m not heartbroken about this because I look at the larger picture which suggests these services are less expensive to provide, per resident, when people live in such higher density environments.

Think about it, 500 people living on one block, versus 16 people on a typical block of the same size in suburbia.. Most of these urban dwellers don’t have children or require massive road widening from excessive driving. As someone in my 30’s, I’m happy to see this direction towards more infill development over sprawl so that me, my children, and my children’s children can expect to still be able to enjoy the natural resources around us, enjoy locally produced food, and not live in further indebtedness as a result of suburban sprawl and the endless subsidies that sprawl would need over time.

]]>
By: ORBUSMAX ARCHIVES › Links From 5/29/10 /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-25613 Sun, 30 May 2010 18:38:18 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-25613 […] areas… Fed Audit: Millions wasted to avoid sending Hanford nuke jobs to Idaho… GREEN IN PORTLAND: Residents urged to ditch cars in South Waterfront District… UPDATE: Portland grand jury finds no criminal wrongdoing in police shooting of Keaton Otis… […]

]]>
By: poncho /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-25516 Sun, 30 May 2010 02:32:32 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-25516 if you worship cars, you wouldnt have ever considered south waterfront (or any urban area) regardless of a TMA or not. i cant say the south waterfront is my thing but there are some people like myself who would rather not live my life inside a car.

]]>
By: Doc Golightly /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-25485 Sat, 29 May 2010 21:44:38 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-25485 FYI – here’s an article on the recent law concerning school districts and TIF funding:

]]>
By: Brandon /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-25464 Sat, 29 May 2010 17:33:31 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-25464 Though their goal for next-generation public transportation, it’s this type of benevolent out of touch central planning that will kill the south waterfront. It is already so difficult to get to the SWF; the neighborhood has become an island that will keep commerce out (ie that’s why there’s no grocery store). The street car stops too early for the bar-going young people, for example. Even if all the buildings down here were full, the commercial spaces could not be supported without making it easier for people to come and go. Most do not understand how truly isolated this neighborhood is from the rest of the city.

]]>
By: Doc Golightly /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-25402 Sat, 29 May 2010 10:01:21 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-25402 Robert –

Steve F. is absolutely correct. The South Waterfront was bought and paid for with TIF dollars through the urban renewal area. TIF dollars directly pull money from vital services including schools and county services. It’s one reason why the state legislature now requires school districts to sign off on any extension of an urban renewal area.

This is all to say that you might want to research what is really happening before scolding people who know a lot more than you do.

]]>
By: Ryan /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-25341 Sat, 29 May 2010 00:47:57 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-25341 About a year ago I thought it might be fun to walk from my current residence in the Lair Hill area SW of the SoWa district. Maybe I wanted to see how “walkable” it actually was, or maybe I just had the time on my hands, can’t really remember, but I remember not being able to get there on foot…. as in it was pretty much impossible without making it an 8 mile walk. As far as I could tell the only way in or out by foot is to go all the way out north on Corbett to Harbor Dr., then turn back around south on to Moody and take that into the big condo fortress. See, there’s this big freeway (and a state hwy. paralleling that) between SoWa and the rest of civilization. And they ran out of money so they can’t build the uber expensive ped bridge they originally had planned. So walking there will be a little challenging for the average person (also considering the crumbling or complete lack of sidewalks on the non-freeway roads that you can actually cross on foot).

So I guess if they’re going to make it some kind of biodome experiment where the people that live there have to learn how to survive with just a convenience store, a poodle poop park and some overpriced restaurants, then it may be attractive to… yeah I dunno, that’s a tough one. I really can’t think of anyone that would willingly pay that much money to live in an overpriced condo without a car and be effectively walled in by a river, a freeway and several ugly concrete buildings. I guess that’s the price for sustainable living…

]]>
By: ld /news/2010/05/27/group-wants-south-waterfront-to-ditch-cars/#comment-25308 Fri, 28 May 2010 19:18:21 +0000 /?p=54206#comment-25308 Bierma: look into it. TIF financing shorts the schol funding by diverting property tax revenues. South Waterfront is a TIF boondoggle.

]]>