Portland Fire & Rescue officials are reviewing their codes and policies for buildings under construction.

Their actions come in the aftermath of an alleged arson fire that gutted an apartment complex being built at the corner of Northeast Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Monroe Street on Aug. 8.

Lt. Rich Chatman, a public information officer for Portland Fire & Rescue, said the review could result in new codes for what building contractors should do to protect themselves from such fires.

“I can tell you right now that one of the easiest things to do is get a security guard,” Chatman said.

Portland Fire Chief Erin Janssens said at a press conference on Aug. 12 that investigators determined officially that the fire was the result of arson. The amount of damage was set at $5 million.

Officials for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have posted a $2,500 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible for the fire. Tips are being accepted by phone at 1-888-ATF-FIRE.

Meanwhile, the project’s general contractor said he and the developer are literally sifting through the rubble.

“We expect to have some clarity this time next week,” Brian Gerritz, president of Pavilion Construction, said last week.

Phase Two Construction, the project’s developer, was insured by Liberty Mutual. Gerritz said a lot of conversations have taken place between him, developer Chris Rogers and Liberty Mutual.

“When we got together, there were more questions than answers,” he said. “It’s a lot of paper grind at the moment. We did get clearance for the subcontractor to demolish the remainder of the structure.

“We’re going to take everything above the concrete slab off and let the structural engineers take a look at it,” he added. “It’s questionable whether anything below the slab can be salvaged because the plastic pipe that was used sustained fire damage.”

As for the specifics of the arson investigation, Gerritz said he knows very little from talking with fire investigators.

“Out of respect for the integrity of their investigation, they shared very little with us that they didn’t share with the general public in terms of the arson investigation,” he said.

Rich Hoover, spokesman for the Oregon Office of the State Fire Marshal, said he is not sure how code changes at the local level might affect buildings under construction.

“There are no such regulations on the state level,” Hoover said. “Things like how many fire extinguishers you have to have on site or how much security, we don’t get into that kind of regulation.”

Gerritz said he didn’t want to comment on any recommendations coming from local fire officials, except to say he has heard several – communicated to him through the Portland Bureau of Development Services.

The five-story apartment complex was 60 to 70 percent finished when the fire broke out, Rogers said in an interview hours after the fire. Construction had been under way for two years, he said.

The 12,000-square-foot complex was designed for 46 market-rate apartments and 14 parking spaces. Architect Ralph Tahran said in an interview last year that plans called for 50 percent one-bedroom units, 40 percent studios and 10 percent two-bedroom units.

Rogers said the building was in a particularly precarious state.

“The building was at its most vulnerable state because it didn’t have Sheetrock yet,” he said at the time. “The wood was just sitting there like a kindling box. It was ready to go.”

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City officials in Coos Bay could soon seek a contractor to restore the exterior of the town’s 88-year-old movie theater.

Work is already under way on the interior of the Egyptian Theatre off of U.S. Route 101 after volunteers raised more than $550,000. Before fundraising finishes, more than enough money should be available for restoration of the exterior to start, said Bob More, capital campaign coordinator of the Egyptian Theatre Preservation Association.

The theater is owned by the city, but managed and cared for by volunteers for the association. That puts a bit of a wrinkle in the contracting process, More said.

“Because the city still owns the theater, there’s a little different game in terms of bidding than would apply in the private sector,” he said.

The exterior restoration would be put out to bid as a public project, subject to construction manager-general contractor rules.

Before 2006, the theater was owned by Coming Attractions Theatres. City officials bought the theater and put its management and operation in the hands of the association and its volunteers.

“Fortunately, (city officials) also saw it as a treasure that needs to be preserved,” More said.

An engineering study commissioned in 2011 concluded that the building needed $3.7 million in seismic upgrades.

“Everyone went through shock,” More said. “This happened right at the time of the Japanese earthquake and tsunami.”

City officials decided to close the theater while volunteers came up with a strategic plan. The first step was re-examining the $3.7 million price tag, More said.

“A lot of people thought it was the wrong number,” he said.

A second engineering study was done – this time by a firm that specializes in old concrete buildings and aging theaters. The price dropped to $700,000 for both the interior and exterior. That also included slightly lower expectations, More said.

“We recognized early on that the real goal was to get the theater reopened, not to completely restore the theater,” he said.

A more thorough restoration will take place when the exterior work wraps up, he added. A price for that project isn’t set yet.

“There’s some real interest in changing the exterior so people can see that something has happened inside,” More said.

Completion of the interior work should result in a grand re-opening next April, he said.

Local businessmen in the 1920s approached Portland architect Lee Arden Thomas to design a 1,240-seat silent movie and vaudeville house. The Egyptian Theatre opened on Nov. 19, 1925, at a cost of $200,000.

More said the greatest part of the restoration project has been working with city officials.

“Everything has always been with the full cooperation of the city,” he said. “There’s been this major partnership over the long haul. In a small, rural community, city governments and nonprofits can work together and make miracles.”

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Leaders of the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs voted this month to officially abandon their plans to build a $30 million casino in Cascade Locks, leaving a 60-acre parcel owned by the Port of Cascade Locks available for development.

Now that members of the tribal council have withdrawn their remaining state and federal applications for approval of the casino, port spokeswoman Mary Hutton said officials are open to new ideas.

“We’re definitely interested in hearing from anyone who might want to work with us on the property,” she said.

Working with the tribe remains a possibility, she said.

The casino project was comatose in recent months. Original plans called for a 600,000-square-foot casino between Interstate 84 and the Columbia River near the Bridge of the Gods. However, Gov. John Kitzhaber returned to office in 2011 vowing to reject any order that would allow construction of the casino in the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area.

In January 2012, port officials let the clock run out on the tribe’s deadline for buying the property. By that time, tribal leaders were already building the Indian Head Casino in Warm Springs. It opened a month later.

Hutton said anyone interested in the Cascade Locks property should contact the port’s interim manager, Paul Koch, at 541-374-8619.

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A critical report from Eugene city planners could delay a proposed 608-unit housing project indefinitely and lead to a showdown between developers and neighbors before the Oregon Land Use Board of Appeals.

Staff members for the Eugene Planning Division this week issued a report recommending that developers of the Laurel Ridge subdivision be denied the zoning change they requested because they want to build on what staffers maintain is protected green space.

“It’s a big deal because it runs through the middle of the property where they want to build their multifamily units,” associate planner Steve Ochs said. “There is disagreement over what could be developed in that area. The applicant wants the zoning changed to permit low-density residential.”

The property is southeast of Eugene’s city center, west of Interstate 5. Property owner Environ-Metal Properties of Sweet Home is represented in its conversations with city officials by the Schirmer Satre Group, a consulting company of land-use planners, landscape architects and environmental specialists in Eugene.

Carol Schirmer, the firm’s owner, said she and her clients are not giving up.

“We’re going to keep pressing forward because we think we have an exceptional development that does its level best to work with these vague land-use regulations,” she said.

Schirmer added that she wishes city staffers had approved the development and tacked on conditions to meet any concerns.

“It’s not a get-out-of-jail-free card,” she said. “You still have to meet all of the conditions.”

A public hearing was held this week. The deadline for offering public testimony was extended through September. Once that deadline has passed, a hearings officer has 15 days to make a ruling on the staffers’ recommendation.

The decision can be appealed to the Eugene Planning Commission. Appeals beyond that must be taken to LUBA.

Sandy Tilcock, a member of Laurel Hill Valley Citizens‘ executive committee, said neighbors are getting ready for a long fight and have already raised $20,000 to go toward a potential LUBA appeal. She added that the staff report is an important first victory, even if it’s a minor one.

“It’s positive that the city agrees with us, that they find … issues with the development as it stands,” Tilcock said.

Plans for the development call for 533 multifamily units (either townhomes or apartments) and 75 single-family homes. Townhomes would be in 19 clusters, while the multifamily units would be in 20 clusters.

To address residents’ concerns, Schirmer said a wide, undeveloped buffer is planned along the western edge of the property, with multifamily units packed more densely in the interior. A total of 69 acres would be undeveloped, she added, with 10 acres of the 11.3 acres of stream corridors and wetlands preserved.

“That’s unprecedented as far as I know,” she said.

Tilcock said neighbors are not impressed.

“There are still a lot of questions left unanswered,” she said. “One big one is accessibility, there being only one access road to the development, and the fire department wants at least two. This is up on the ridgeline. If there’s a fire, everyone could be trapped.

“This development could double the population of the neighborhood, with 15,000 to 16,000 people coming in,” she added. “That’s a huge amount of people for only one way out.”

A lack of access roads to and from the development was another problem cited in the staff report.

Schirmer said developers thought they had worked out access road issues with city and county officials. Another neighboring development was going to add even more access, she said.

“Now, much to our surprise, the staff report says we know you don’t have access,” she added.

Ochs said the development has fired a lot of emotions in Eugene.

“It seems like (those) bigger developments we’ve seen lately,” he said. “There seems to be a lot of neighborhood opposition.”

Expect more, Tilcock said.

“Our neighborhood is very passionate about maintaining the livability of our area,” she said. “It’s a very sensitive area where they want to build. It’s not an easy piece of property to develop, and it has to be done with care.”

The staff report is available online at bit.ly/18gdLf4.

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After years of delay, developer Steven Ribeiro said in May he was set to resume work in Independence on the 58,000-square-foot building he claims will be the most energy-efficient structure in the world.

“We’re ready to hit it hard,” he said at the time.

A few months later, Independence City Manager Dave Clyne said the only visible difference at the construction site is that some of the debris has been removed.

“The cleanup was definitely visible, so people are grateful for that,” Clyne said. “He was probably cleaning it up for investors, so we remain hopeful, but we also remain vigilant.”

Ribeiro could not be reached for comment.

City officials have given Ribeiro a deadline for finishing his Independence Station project.

If the building is not done by early next year, city officials will take over the property at Second and Monmouth streets and boot him from the project. Officials have that leverage because Ribeiro owes them $548,000 in uncollected system development charges.

Ribeiro began work on Independence Station in late 2004. Construction quickly halted when Ribeiro and 20 other project parties were sued by the general contractor. Executives with Johnson Controls Inc. claimed that the defendants defaulted on $14.5 million in loans.

A federal judge in California dismissed the lawsuit late last year as the parties reached an out-of-court settlement.

Ribeiro said in May that clears the way for the project to finish. He insisted it will still be the “greenest” building in the world with food grown on aquaponic farms and an electrical system powered by a vegetable oil.

“He said he’s expecting to come to us shortly with news about the building,” Clyne said. “We’re waiting for that to happen. He hasn’t asked for any relief from our deadline, so that’s a good sign.”

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Oregon state Rep. Vicki Berger, R-Salem, vice chair of the House Revenue Committee, thinks there definitely needs to be a new bridge across Interstate 5 connecting Portland and Vancouver.

“The need is not going to go away,” Berger said. “That, we can guarantee.”

But state Sen. Betsy Johnson, D-Scappoose, who co-chairs the powerful Joint Ways and Means Committee as well as its subcommittee on transportation and economic development, isn’t as convinced.

The difference of opinions over whether a new bridge between Portland and Vancouver should be built isn’t limited to Berger and Johnson. Oregon legislators and state officials in general are divided on whether or not to revive the $2.8 billion Columbia River Crossing project.

Meanwhile, little more than a month remains before a deadline that could evaporate state and federal funds entirely for any such project.

Although Oregon legislators were willing to pony up their state’s share of money for the bridge, the project was considered clinically dead when the Washington State Senate failed to approve its state’s $450 million share for construction.

Still, some CRC supporters believe Oregon shouldn’t abandon the project. Reviving it, though, depends on Oregon going it alone with state and federal dollars. Oregon legislators built in a Sept. 30 deadline for obtaining federal funds before their commitment to state funds expires.

That is a tight deadline, said Johnson, and she is not optimistic about reaching it — especially with too many questions about the size, scope and financing of a revived project left unanswered.

“Until basic questions are answered, and the treasurer signs off on the bond, we’re not going to go ahead with an Oregon-only project,” said Johnson.

State Treasurer Ted Wheeler has already expressed his own skepticism, sending a letter to Gov. John Kitzhaber’s CRC adviser, saying “significant financial” questions needed to be answered before he can certify that the project is economically viable.

“Commerce is vital to Oregon’s economic future, and I support the vision of an improved crossing over the Columbia River, but it has to be done right,” wrote Wheeler in an email to the Daily Journal of Commerce.

“Oregon taxpayers expect and deserve a thorough analysis to ensure the math adds up,” he said.

Johnson said that is a big math assignment to complete in a month.

“It appears to me that no one is going to be able to provide that investment-grade analysis,” she said. “I have an enormous number of questions, and Wheeler caught many of them.”

Nonetheless, Berger said the idea of an Oregon-only project is worth discussing. It could have distinct advantages, she said.

“Oregon wouldn’t have to share the cost, but Oregon wouldn’t have to share the tolls,” Berger said. “Still, we’d have to look at the numbers in a serious way. A lot depends on federal funding.”

Millions of dollars have already been spent on the project just to abandon it now, she added.

“We’ve spent the preliminary money,” Berger said. “We know the answers to the basic questions on the cost. If this project is going to go forward, is there a way Oregon can do it without Washington? I think that’s a legitimate question.”

Jonah Cohen, a principal at THA Architecture in Portland, said he shudders at the thought of reviving the CRC as originally drafted.

Cohen first got involved with CRC discussions during his tenure as president of the Architectural Foundation of Oregon.

“We were opposed to the project going forward in the state it was in,” Cohen said.

“We felt that there were a lot of creative development opportunities missed on both sides of the river as well as a missed opportunity to create something symbolically significant for the crossing of the greatest Western river,” he said.

Cohen said the CRC was poorly conceived when it was first proposed in 2005, and it has not improved with age.

Growing up in the shadow of the Brooklyn Bridge, Cohen said he learned something about bridge architecture. Oregon officials could learn a lot from John Augustus Roebling’s 130-year-old bridge, he added.

“The Brooklyn Bridge is both highly functional and highly iconic,” said Cohen. “You don’t have to sacrifice one of those elements. You can have both.”

Berger admits the Columbia River Crossing project that was originally proposed may not be the best solution, but she thinks there at least needs to be some discussion about the matter.

“Is there’s a better, more cogent way to do this than the CRC?” said Berger. “I don’t know. I’m not a bridge expert. I know there are conversations about next steps. I think there should be a conversation about next steps.”

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Some Salem residents are livid about a developer’s plan for a 107-unit multifamily project that would route traffic to and from the complex slightly past the parking lot for a carousel.

However, Mark Shipman, an attorney for developer Larry Tokarski of Mountain West Development Corp., said city officials must grant the access. Otherwise, Shipman said, no one will ever be able to develop Salem’s south riverfront. State and local officials have already ruled out all alternative access points, he said.

Marie Bradford-Blevins, the executive director of the Salem Riverfront Carousel, said she sympathizes with Tokarski and his team.

“I know he’s in between a rock and hard spot, but it’s already fairly busy and dangerous crossing,” Bradford-Blevins said. “You really only have eight seconds to get across that light at State and Front streets. Plus, you have people from West Salem going south on Front Street.”

Salem City Council was scheduled to vote Monday whether to allow the access; however, after public comments stretched the meeting almost to midnight, councilors decided to postpone their decision and keep the period for public comments open until Sept. 9.

The council’s decision could make or break Tokarski’s proposed $21 million project that promises to remake the face of Salem’s south riverfront. He wants to provide access to the complex (on a former truck parking lot) at the railroad crossing at the west end of State Street, where it intersects with Front Street.

Oregon Department of Transportation officials will not let Tokarski use any other railroad crossings along Front Street except the one at the mouth of the Salem Riverfront Carousel’s busy parking lot.

“There are often families with small children in that parking lot,” Bradford-Blevins said. “We just think it is not going to be beneficial to the carousel or the people visiting Riverfront Park.”

City planners are offering little guidance; in their report to City Council, they reviewed the facts without making any recommendations for action.

Councilor Warren Bednarz said officials could be courting a lawsuit if they deny Tokarski the access.

“If he can meet the safety criteria, he has a legal right to build the access,” Bednarz said. “With other railroad crossings closed off to him, the only other place is the carousel entrance. If we had a magic wand we could wave to fix this problem, we would move the railroad crossing. But with city and state laws, that’s not going to happen. That’s the gorilla we have to wrestle.”

However, Councilor Chuck Bennett said he doesn’t buy the legal argument.

“That’s not an accurate analysis,” he said. “We are not required by anyone to grant access. If the developer owned a legal access and we shut it down, then he would have grounds to sue us. That’s just a misreading of the flag-lot law. But, you know, any port in a storm for someone who wants to vote for this thing.”

Bennett said he thinks the council will ultimately reject the access.

“Its chances are problematic,” he said. “It’s an uphill battle. We have received over the past couple of days a really substantial amount of public reaction that is almost unanimously against it. It’s not like form letters either. It’s people giving their heartfelt opinions.”

Shipman said people have reacted with too much emotion. No one is talking about apartment residents cutting through the parking lot, he said.

“We’re actually going around the parking area,” Shipman said. “The design we’ve come up with includes curbs, landscaping and fencing to physically separate the access drive from the parking area.”

Shipman added that the design adds 14 new parking spaces and redesigns the lot to accommodate more cars through angular parking. It also creates spaces for compact vehicles.

Nonetheless, the design submitted to Salem’s urban development department would require drivers to dramatically crank their steering wheels to reach either the apartments or the carousel.

Shipman said the arrangement is not perfect. When Tokarski bought the property in 2007, he proposed building a railroad crossing farther south of the property, on Commercial Street. Bradford-Blevins said the carousel’s board of directors approved the concept, even though it was not popular with neighboring residents. City Council also approved the concept.

But John Wales, Salem’s urban development director, said the offer expired when Tokarski failed to build a hotel he proposed for the property.

Shipman said he and his clients would still like to see the crossing moved.

“That would ideal, but that’s not going to happen,” he said. “We spent umpteen years and tons of money trying to work that out.”

Part of the problem, Wales said, is that Tokarski’s plans for the site have shifted a lot over time.

“First, he wanted to build a hotel,” he said. “Now he wants to build an apartment complex. For whatever reason, that first plan didn’t go through, and the crossing option expired.”

Bennett said that is not the city’s problem.

“At some point, I think we’ve fulfilled our responsibility to the developer in terms of providing access,” Bennett said. “I cannot believe the development depends on a 3.5-acre site adjacent to a public parking lot.

“We’ve been consistent that we don’t want a road coming through a parking lot adjacent to a carousel and children’s play area,” he added. “It could not be a worse site to create a throughway.”

Bradford-Blevins said the 107-unit apartment complex would include 1.5 parking spots per tenant, not counting those needed to accommodate 20,000 square feet of retail space.

Meanwhile, the carousel and adjacent Riverfront Park parking lot attracts more than 300,000 visitors every year.

“We are Grand Central Station for anything that happens in this park,” she said.

Bradford-Blevins added that the nearby railroad track would complicate access to the complex.

“When the train is stalled, how do you get out of here?” she said.

Shipman said it is not going to be a problem. On rare occasions when people are blocked by a stalled train, they can park downtown and walk home, he added.

“Traffic studies also show that our peak hours are not going to be the carousel’s (peak) hours,” he said. “You’re not going to have those jammed areas.”

The post UPDATED: Salem developer wants to route traffic past carousel appeared first on Daily Journal of Commerce.

A developer who wants to build $7.6 million worth of low-income housing in Island City is running into opposition from officials who are worried that the project might result in lower income for the city itself.

Earlier this month, the Island City Council gave Guardian Real Estate Services in Portland permission to begin planning the 38-unit complex, but now some Council members are expressing concerns.

Island City Mayor Dale De Long said he is concerned that the project would be managed by the tax-exempt, nonprofit Northeast Oregon Housing Authority and would not contribute anything in local property taxes, according to minutes from an Aug. 12 city council meeting.

But Dale Inslee, executive director of the housing authority, said during the meeting that the project would contribute to the city through payments in lieu of taxes.

Under Oregon law, nonprofits eligible for a tax exemption pay their county treasurer an annual amount equal to 10 percent of the rent payments collected. Inslee said other amounts can also be negotiated.

De Long and councilors have also expressed concern that the property might become an eyesore. Inslee countered that the property would be regularly inspected by five federal and state agencies.

Island City is a town of 900 people adjacent to La Grande, where the income per capita is $21,000 – almost half the amount in Oregon as a whole.

“There is a great need in this area for affordable, safe, sanitary housing for families,” said Inslee.

Daniel Steffey, senior vice president for Guardian Real Estate Services, said in an interview with the 91ĘÓƵ earlier this month that the complex was originally priced at $8.2 million.

“We’ve downsized a bit to $7.6 million to fit within the city’s requirements,” he said.

If all goes well, he said, ground should be broken next spring, with the complex opening to residents in fall 2014.

The project does not need the Council’s approval if local development codes are met. However, during the August meeting, De Long said he hopes the Council’s blessing is important to developers.

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A $5 million airport renovation project has run into some temporary turbulence.

A requirement to conduct interior renovation work at Eugene Airport without interrupting regular flights has proven awkward for workers and passengers.

Deputy airport director Cathryn Stephens said she originally hoped the renovation would cause minimal disruption, but then both American and Frontier airlines began flying into Eugene.

“Because of that, we didn’t have the space to gently move things around,” Stephens said. “We quickly put in modular units and did some major shuffling.”

However, there is good news as well.

“Although $5 million was the original projected cost of the project, the bids came back in our favor, so the actual cost may be a bit less,” Stephens said.

Eugene Airport also known as Mahlon Sweet Field, will remain open while workers complete the renovation project. However, Stephens said travelers might want to arrive two hours early for the flight due to delays caused by construction.

“We moved the ticket counters out about 8 to 10 feet and putting up a construction wall behind that,” said Stephens. “It’s a temporary solution, but in the end, it will be much better for everyone. We’ll have electronic screens for the airlines to display their logos. Each airline will eventually be able to display all their flight information.”

Construction is expected to continue through late October.

The project includes moving screening equipment behind the ticket counters so passengers can check their bags directly at the counter. This could cause ticket counters and airline offices to be shuffled about during construction.

All six of the airport’s airline offices are being temporarily relocated to modular units the terminal.

The project also includes a new flight information display system.

Stephens said the airport is seeing more travelers and visitors now that Frontier and American airlines have extended flights to Eugene.

Airport officials eventually want to add offices and ticket counters on the north end of the terminal so six more airlines can bring flights to Eugene, she said.

The airport is growing in every way.

A record 809,457 passengers passed through the Eugene airport last year — reflecting a 3.74 percent increase over 2011 (the previous record holder).

Of the $5 million projected cost for the project, $3.2 million is coming from grants from the Transportation Security Administration, and $1.8 million will come from airport funds and $4.50 added to each passenger’s ticket.

The project may not actually cost $5 million, Stephens said.

The general contractor on the project is Hyland Construction of Eugene.

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The story about the two Portland construction workers who helped nab a robbery suspect on Monday has spread far beyond Oregon. But in all of the stories, only one of the men, Fred Shearer & Sons employee Brad Hanson, was named. The second worker was identified only as an employee of another company working on the same project as Hanson

Now, there’s nothing that we at the 91ĘÓƵ like better than indulging in a little sleuthing of the journalism variety. So we set off in search of the mystery man, who now has a name: Scott Adams, a roofer with Arrow Roofing and Sheet Metal Inc.

Adams and Hanson were was working on a Portland Community College project in Southeast Portland when they saw something they knew was out of place on the construction site.

“I was standing there, waiting for a forklift, when this guy runs through the work site with paint on him,” Adams said.

He thought the man might have been a painter who had been injured. But after looking at the man’s arms and legs, Adams didn’t see any injuries.

A few seconds later, someone asked if anyone had seen the running man, who police suspected had just robbed the Bank of the West at Southeast Division Street and 82nd Avenue.

Adams and Hanson both took off after the suspect. The suspect stopped and turned, saying he had nothing to lose and was ready to fight, according to Adams

“I chased him, but I’m not stupid,” Adams said. “If I thought he was armed, I would have dropped back and tailed him until the police could get there, but I had checked him for injuries and knew he probably wasn’t packing a weapon.”

When he hit him, said Adams, the suspect covered his mouth — giving Adams the opportunity to throw him to the ground. Hanson was at the ready with his now famous “chicken-wing” technique.

“He was able to pin (the suspect’s) arm back and give me a chance to catch my breath,” Adams said.

Portland police arrested 44-year-old Frazer Piccolo. According to police reports, Piccolo allegedly tried to make his getaway in a taxi, and the bag of money exploded with red dye. He then fled on foot.

When Piccolo said he was willing to fight, Adams said he noticed the suspect was about 5-foot-10 and in his 40s. Adams is 25.

“I was pretty sure I could take him,” he said.

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